Avatar isn't the greatest movie of all time (imho) but it is close to becoming the number one all time grosser – enjoy it, accept it and stop putting asterisks next to all it's records!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/848205…

Regardless of how much one liked or disliked Avatar (notice the past tense there; an assumtion everyone's already seen it , I must say that Ed raises some extremely valid points. In fact, when I first learned the measuring stick was Box Office gross figures, my initial thought was, “Well that's just stupid! What an inaccurate assessment.”.

I suppose it's kinda like the DOW Industrial Average – where the total cost of 30 stocks was divided by, well, 30 and made perfect sense… in 1890. Conserving tradition and the original method of measure – for those following along closely – became more important than how odd the system appears to newcomers. I'm just not sure when the Box Office methods looked normal (or if they ever did). If there was a 20 year period when ticket prices were basically stable (25 cents or whatever) OR if ticket prices fluctuated for different movies, then I could see how the BOG [Box Office Gross] method started.

Today, I'd think counting straight up ticket numbers sold would be a much better indicator. There are far too many variables with dollar figures alone. Besides, don't movie theaters (perhaps in different economic zones) charge whatever they want? Also, how much of your $100 million BOG goes to the theaters? I'm thinking both attendance numbers and dollar figures would be needed for a thorough picture of how well a movie did.

FWIW, I'm in the camp who goes to an actual cinema maybe 5 times/year, depending on how many movies come out that I really want to see on the big screen. I watch most movies via DVR or Netflix, usually at someone else's place, which I suppose doesn't give studios a penny more than if it were obtained illegally. I also have a small collection of DVD & Blu-ray.

So anyway, I'm a sorta hard sell…

BUT when a movie like Avatar comes along, then $30 to see it twice on IMAX 3-D. Bam! Done. Once for myself and once to turn someone else on, especially someone who'd otherwise miss it – may even pay their way. I also paid $10 each to see Terminator Salvation, Star Trek, District 9, Ice Age 3-D, Up …and maybe one more I'm forgetting. Expectations are the biggest factor for me and just those 5 run the gamut from above to below [expectation]. When movies fail to deliver, then it takes a little more effort to get me out next time around.

Come to think of it, BOG figures don't take into account whether audiences even liked a film… it could've sucked. Money flows into theaters' coffers is ALL that it measures. That makes it seem like a blatently shallow goal to elevate as a golden yardstick. If Hollywood only focuses on dollar signs instead of quality, then they'll prolly join the RIAA in watching their numbers dwindle downward.

I used to buy music and go to concerts, spending easily $500+ in a year but grew tired of the crap being churned out (plus, let's face the sadness: no shows today can match Pink Floyd or even the early Rave Scene before a swift gov't stomping).
Combined with the generally nasty attitude of the music business side, and I'm proud to say that I've not spent one dime enriching them in about 10 good years and barely miss 'em.

When Hollywood makes something worth seeing in IMAX-3D, on the big screen, or even just on Blu-ray… then I'll be ready and willing to pay [a fair amount]. Hollywood execs can tally it up however they want so long as they don't come to expect profits when material sucks. I'd rather not read a book, but will if I must!

Just a thought. Remember kids, downloading movies is theft. Peace 'n' fucking.

Regarding the negliable effect that illegal downloads have on cinema attendance, you’re ignoring the fact that Avatar is far less likely to be hurt by this because it’s been sold on a platform which isn’t available over the internet or at home, namely big screen 3D spectacle – a new technology. It’s fair to say its box office is therefore “pure” and so comparisons to over movies which wouldn’t have been affected by the web are fair and justified. But to be clear, the effect from downloads is probably overstated and even if that weren’t the case, which it is – a work print of wolverine released a month before the movie didn’t hurt its box office, such problems wouldn’t effect Avatar. Who’s going to want to download it in poor quality 2D? Even the serial thieves I talk to aren’t interested and they go to the cinema maybe twice a year. People still turn out for the big releases.

Cinema has had competition since the 1950s and it’s rather strange to assume that the home distractions of 25 years ago, namely TV and video, in some way took up the attention of a smaller proportion of younger cinema goers, meaning a higher proportion were more likely to go the flicks. Piracy is nothing new in that respect, it’s only the medium of delivery that has changed. What’s the evidence for that? Again, look at attendance. More people went to the cinema in 2006 than at any time since the forties. Plus, when you factor in the fact that cinema attendance was lower in the 80s and tickets were cheaper, the grosses of those movies are more remarkable. More people attend now and pay twice as much yet modern movies can’t match those grosses. Comparisons between the two eras are instructive – its not just the technology in the home, it's the nature of the movies themselves which has changed. Also, to NOT adjust for inflation underwrites the achievements of those filmmakers who had huge hits but have to read, incorrectly, that they’ve been pushed down the chart by Cameron and co. They haven’t. Again, the comparison is really with 20 years ago rather than 80 years ago but its worth checking the figures as it puts Avatar’s gross in perspective rather than it being just a meaningless and seemingly unassailable figure.

And you can't even compare beyond the last decade with other movies, with movies easily downloadable off the net cutting into many movies revenues, it only highlights the astonishing accomplishment that James Cameron has achieved with Avatar.

This post was mentioned on Twitter by heyuguysblog: Avatar’s Inflated Box Office and Other Stories : http://bit.ly/7xwv12...

Cinema was still competing with TV and video in the 1980s when cinema attendance was lower than it is now; that despite the lack of the internet so comparisons are fair and justifiable.

Movie downloads cut into movie revenues but not to the detriment of run away hits. Look at Wolverine’s box office success despite the release of a full work print just one month earlier. The impact remains negligible and probably will remain so until Apple’s iSlate, or whatever the fuck it’s called, makes watching a movie on the move like listening to a track on an ipod. Even then, the impact is likely to be greater felt in the Blu-ray/DVD market, I don’t imagine that cinema attendance will suffer too much – it’s remained pretty stable over the last ten years. During the period you talk about it’s even gone up, so it would be premature to say the web matters in that respect.

As well as inflation Cameron’s BO for Avatar has also been inflated by higher ticket prices for 3D and more screens than was available for wide release when Titanic premiered in 1997. I do give his him due in the final paragraph, not that I like the movie very much (I doubt it will stand up once the technological novelty has subsided), but any talk of box office records has to be balanced with a bit of historical context and the proper adjustments, else it’s just a meaningless set of figures and that underwrites the past achievements of other filmmakers.

I doubt GWTW would have made that sort of money too, but having said that the template it established it still fairly popular. Cameron’s success with Titanic tapped into audience’s same predilection for spectacle and sentimentality which you can trace back, in box office hit terms, to Sunrise, so it was no fluke but of course cinema was dominant then and you have to take that into account.

Remember, downloading movies is theft kids.